PostingBaboushka

Definitions of an 'older mum' can vary wildly, not just from one country to another, but from region to region, family to family. What's old in one person's eyes can be positively youthful in someone else's. Thanks again to all who commented on Tuesday's posting and reminded me of this.

750pxRussianMatroshkanobg_Small.jpgHere's another good example. Apparently even today, in Russia, women tend to have babies before the age of 25, and women older than this are categorised by maternity units as 'elderly', or whatever the Russian is for 'over the hill'.  Dread to think what they'd make of new mums in their 40s. Stalin probably rounded them up and sent them to the Siberian salt mines in disgrace for pressing their withered ovaries into service one last time. Personally I blame all those matrioshka dolls they have. Such temptation to see if there's another little one waiting to emerge.

I discovered about Russian ideas on maternal age in Oliver James' book Affluenza, in which he explores why so many more people fixate on what they haven't got and seek to be someone they're not.

Not obviously a book where I expected to come across definitions of an 'older' mum. But maternal age is relevant here, insists James. He says he mentions childbearing age in Russia, because Russian women 'do not yet define their worth through paid work'. Many of them do work, but their primary focus remains on being mothers. Hence fewer of the tensions between work and family experienced by so many of their counterparts in Western Europe.

James lays the blame for some of our social ills at the door of poor childcare. His biggest bugbear is putting young children into nurseries before they're ready and even argues that our culture's restless dissatisfaction and obsession with 'having' rather than 'being'  is a byproduct of inadequate early child care that makes us insecure and needy.

He objects to mums leaving young children in nurseries or with childminders, arguing this causes long-term behavioural problems for the children in question, who find it difficult to form relationships and tend to base their sense of worth on external factors (exam grades, size and location of house, trendy gadgets). The problem with 'affluenza' is its many sufferers are never satisfied, no matter how much they achieve or own,  leaving them with an unquenchable sense of emptiness. Since Beanie, aged 17 months, goes to nursery twice a week, you can imagine how I felt when I read that.

Here is James on the evils of day care for young children: "The message from research is clear: under three a child is best off with one person, the same one every day and one who is responsive."

However, he's not unsympathetic to mothers: "The great problem [with being a mother] is the lack of status it attracts and our having been brainwashed into believing that only paid work is admirable. Unfortunately it will be rare that anyone other than your partners will give you the credit you deserve. But in its absence, remember this: however much you were raised to be a prize-hunter, intrinsic pleasure is far better for your emotional well-being. It may not seem so very often, but the authenticity, vivacity and playfulness of small children is hugely rewarding, a much greater boon than any number of promotions or pay rises."

So there we go.

Posted 20 September 2007 13:19

Older mother Childcare Nursery Parenting gurus

Comments

Omega Mum said:

I am sorry to sound in any way disbelieving but what is James' theory intended to prove? Sounds like another reason for us to beat ourselves up because we aren't Russian, this time. Mind you, I like the prizes on offer to boost the birthrate - have a baby on a certain day of the year and you can win a car. "Darling, I think it's a Proton." Now that's what I call redefining motherhood.

Posted 20 September 2007 17:52

Mother at Large said:

Omega Mum, I need no excuses to beat myself up, having a ready stash of sack cloth and ashes close to hand for all eventualities. But yes, agree. And those Russian mums get an annual day off the work they're not meant to take very seriously for Conception Day. Can't see GB agreeing to that one.

Posted 20 September 2007 19:09

Vicky said:

The book sounds quite interesting. Is it worth a read or is it a bit too depressing?



I am sure there is a conspiracy to make mums who put their kids in any sort of childcare feel guilty! The main reason we have to do this is that in our culture there is no extended family. Are children equally scarred by spending time with their grannies/aunts etc who provide unpaid help in many countries?



I think there should be more books out there saying what a great job we Mums do and how hard it is ;)

Posted 20 September 2007 20:03

DJ Kirkby said:

N3S has gone to nursery full time from 51/2 months old...urgh...I blame myself enough for not being able to help him with his behavioral problems but until I read this post I never consdiered that I might actualy have been the root cause of his problem. Going to bed now, hanging my head in shame.

Posted 20 September 2007 21:19

Mother at Large said:

Vicky, agreed. Is an interesting book, well worth reading, but I can't agree with the central premise that women are selling their souls to rampant materialism by going back to work and putting their children into nurseries. I see how much my daughter enjoys herself at nursery twice a week - and she does stuff there I couldn't lay on for her at home. And I get to follow my dreams as well, during those two days.



DJ! Oh, no. My heart's sinking as I re-read your comment. I see what a good mum you are to your boy. Please don't ever feel like that. Nobody could have been more understanding of him, could be more supportive, more thoughtful. You do a brilliant job of being his mum.

Posted 20 September 2007 21:50

potty mummy said:

I've been both sides of the fence; went back to work between kids, decided to give up the fight after the second (husband working long hours, being paid to pay for child-care, etc etc). Have to say that the guilt I felt on going back to work and leaving Boy #1 with a carer was as nothing compared to the guilt on giving up my career; I was letting the sisterhood down, am I a good enough mum, why is it not enough for me to be at home looking after the family, why am I so busy missing work when I should just enjoy being with my boys, how come now I'm not working I still can't make a dent in the to-do list, why can't I fit the perfectly groomed model of yummy-mummy-hood that is the norm in my part of expat-ville, why haven't I lost the baby weight yet - and so on.

It's taken me 18 months and lots of counselling sessions (no, really) to come to terms with how things are, but my overall feeling is that frankly, working mum or not, you can't win.

But books like that don't help anyone.

Posted 20 September 2007 23:25

Joyfulgirl said:

My heart does sink a bit when I read about these studies - part of me wants to put my head in the sand and immediately try to justify my choices re. childcare and returning to work rather than try to look at the study dispassionately.



It’s not as if this issue doesn’t regularly feature in my thoughts - I find myself counting up the number of “awake hours” I spend with my child per day versus the number he spends at the child-minders in an effort to make myself feel better once I can balance the hours or have “credit” hours ... surely not the sign of a mother who is just interested in promotions and pay rises!



I do worry I have not done the best for my boy but on the other hand I didn't turn out to be a very confident and socially adept adult -despite being at home full time with my mum. As with a lot of the choices I have to make with respect to my son, I just aim (and hope) for doing reasonably ok.

Posted 21 September 2007 09:49

beta mum said:

I've been working from home for a few years now, so I can fetch the children from school, have their friends to play, take them to clubs etc - and I'm sick to death of these four walls.

I'm craving a job (like the one I had) that involves being with other people, earning decent money and leaving the house every once in a while.

The grass is always greener...

Posted 21 September 2007 10:47

Guineapigmum said:

Oh dear, I'm missing yet another birthday in a fortnight while I'm away working in Wales. I too work at home and try to balance earning a living with the needs of the children. It never quite works, I'm always doing too much but I've stopped feeling guilty - just knackered! But I'm going to be in deep trouble over this birthday!

Posted 21 September 2007 11:24

selfemployedmum said:

I was fortunate I worked in an insurance company when I had the kids and went to work part time in the evening I went from 16 hrs a week increasing gradually to 24 hours, so I got to stay at home all day and be with them and then when Daddy came home at night I went to work and he took over the roll. I had the best of both worlds, being there for them, socialising with my friends and their friends but still working so that I wouldn't go completely off my head. It was only when youngest went to school I decided to set up my business as I didn't then want to work at night when they were at school all day. I am grateful for the way it worked for us

Posted 21 September 2007 11:28

iota said:

These comments just show that there is no one right answer, no one right way.



I can't help feeling we have ridiculously high expectations of what life can offer, and indeed of ourselves. I really don't think you can have it all, although we seem to believe that is a goal to strive for. And we all seem to be exhausted trying. Family life involves compromise at some point: there are only 24 hours in a day, most of us don't have our mums round the corner and a network of helpful extended family and friends, and house prices usually require 2 salaries.



The crowning glory is that whatever we do, there is always someone telling us we are doing it wrong. Someone should tell this author that "authenticiy, vivacity and playfulness" is great, but also downright tiring.

Posted 21 September 2007 13:35

iota said:

These comments just show that there is no one right answer, no one right way.



I can't help feeling we have ridiculously high expectations of what life can offer, and indeed of ourselves. I really don't think you can have it all, although we seem to believe that is a goal to strive for. And we all seem to be exhausted trying. Family life involves compromise at some point: there are only 24 hours in a day, most of us don't have our mums round the corner and a network of helpful extended family and friends, and house prices usually require 2 salaries.



The crowning glory is that whatever we do, there is always someone telling us we are doing it wrong. Someone should tell this author that "authenticiy, vivacity and playfulness" is great, but also downright tiring.

Posted 21 September 2007 18:18

Mother at Large said:

Potty Mummy, there are no winners in this game. Just lots of guilt. Wish I knew why so many of us pillory ourselves like this.



Joyfulgirl, I can tell from how you write about him that you've done your best and more for your boy. I have to remind myself that I am entitled to do stuff besides being Beanie's mum. Though I suppose we're always mums, even when we're doing other things.



Beta Mum, working from home can be lonely, I find. I miss the stimulation of an office too, well, sometimes. Believe me, I know that feeling of hating being cooped up at home all too well.



GPM, good luck with the trip. Enjoy the time with your boys when you're back.



SEM, best of both worlds, that sounds good. You'll have to tell us more some time about how to manage that!



Iota, my health visitor told me to slacken off my expectations, since she said I was setting ridiculously high standards I was doomed not to meet. Common syndrome among mothers, she told me. Sad so many of us torment ourselves like this.

Posted 21 September 2007 21:24

Frog in the Field said:

I'm an oldski Mumski by Russian standards then and so far removed from normal life I have no status at all outside the home, I fear!

Posted 22 September 2007 11:42

debio said:

Seems to me that anyone who upholds the Russian way of life as the model to be emulated needs to do a little more research!



Or am I being too simplistic and dismissive?



We all have to do what we have to do. I am a 'mature' mum - did the career thing and gave up for chid rearing. Wouldn't have it any other way. But that was my choice - and I count myself very lucky to have had a choice.



To be a poverty stricken (in the main) Russian baby machine - albeit young - with little opportunity to be anything else leaves me searching for the merit.



But perhaps I should read the book?

Posted 23 September 2007 07:16

Around My Kitchen Table said:

Everyone has an opinion on every little aspect of child-rearing and mums are made to feel inferior whatever they do. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. When it comes down to it, children don't want or need "perfect" parents. They need all those old-fashioned things like love, security, boundaries and, when they get older, someone to rebel against!

Posted 23 September 2007 11:30

Mother at Large said:

FITF, fear that judged by Russian standards we're all oldski mums. The book didn't mention average life expectancy in Russia, but I suspect that might also be telling. If you're not expecting to be around that long, suppose it makes more sense to get cracking on reproduction earlier!



Debio, like you, I was lucky enough to have a choice too. Suppose I took it for granted at the time. It's an interesting book - but what he's arguing for goes so much against the grain of current social models, it's asking a lot of individual women to follow his suggestions.



Kit, at only 18 months, my daughter is already discovering the joys of rebellion! So I suspect you must be right.

Posted 08 October 2007 16:25


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